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[Bimmerboy]

A few words from the authors of our Constitution:

"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

- Second Amendment
to the U.S. Constitution


*One great resource on Founding Father quotes in general, as well as Second Amendment matters, can be found at http://www.saf.org/Quotes.html. Now on to just a few of many important quotes:

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 45 (Virginia Convention, June 5, 1788).

"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith on Nov. 13, 1787. The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Julian P. Boyd, vol. 12, p. 356 (1955).

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms;…" Samuel Adams, Debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (February 6, 1788).

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson, Proposed Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334 (Julian P. Boyd, Ed., 1950).

"To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them …" George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380 (June 14, 1788).

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation,... in the several kingdoms of Europe,... the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." James Madison, The Federalist Papers # 46.

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." Tench Coxe in "Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution." Under the pseudonym "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 col. 1. Coxe sent a copy of his essay to James Madison along with a letter of the same date. Madison wrote back and the quote follows.

"Accept my acknowledgments for your favor of the 18th. instant. The printed remarks inclosed in it are already I find in the Gazettes here [New York] ... The amendments ... will however be greatly favored by explanatory strictures of a healing tendency, and is therefore already indebted to the co-operation of your pen." James Madison in a response letter to Tench Coxe above supporting the interpretation of the Second Amendment as an individual right.


"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." Zachariah Johnson, 3 Elliot, Debates at 646 (June 25, 1788).

"The great object is that every man be armed ... Everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 386

"Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped;…" Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers # 29.

"Last Monday a string of amendments were presented to the lower House; these altogether respected personal liberty …" Senator William Grayson of Virginia in a letter to Patrick Henry, June 12, 1789.
note: William Grayson is one of my direct ancestors. Right smack there in the family tree. He was appointed aide-de-camp to George Washington on 24th August 1776, became colonel of a Virginia regiment on 1st January following, and distinguished himself at the battle of Monmouth in 1778. He later served as U.S. Senator, Virginia 1789-90 (1st Congress).

"...one loves to possess arms, tho[ugh] they hope never to have occasion for them." Thomas Jefferson in a letter to George Washington, June 19, 1796. ME 9:341 Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Memorial Edition (Lipscomb and Bergh, editors) 20 Vols., Washington, D.C., 1903-04.

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them …" Thomas Paine, Thoughts on Defensive War, 1775. I Writings of Thomas Paine at 56 (1894).

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in Chapter 40 of "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764.

"Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion… in private self-defense …" John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of the Government of the USA, 471 (1788)

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
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I'm an excellent driver... Of course I don't have my underwear. I'm definitely not wearing my underwear

[Fastlicks]

Thread moved and stickied.
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I lick, therefore I am.

"They come here to see him go crazy or something. They don't realize there's notes involved."

[Fastlicks]

Came arcoss another good one today.

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."

George Washington
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I lick, therefore I am.

"They come here to see him go crazy or something. They don't realize there's notes involved."

[WolfV11]

Some thoughts on the 2nd amendment.

While my thoughts on this potentially conflict with my Buddhist philosophies, I love guns, and think everyone should own one!



In all seriousness thought, and I have had this argument many times with my grandmother on the subject. I do sincerely believe the government should have no right what so ever to restrict our abilities to own and carry firearms of any sort.

Until the day comes that people will never use them again for evil, then we can toss them aside. But as long as there will be Seung-Hui Cho's, Dylan & Eric's (not me), and other various sorts of people who feel the need to use weapons to harm and not to defend. We will still need to have these tools of defense.

Even if not for the defense against the local town nutcase, we need protection from our own government. Trusting the police and our government to know what to do with their weapons is something that does not sit right with me. Especially when the police have guns and I don't.

As a 21 year old US citizen who can freely enter the military (and almost did) and can "responsibly" drink. I feel deeply betrayed by my own government for denying myself the right of defense when it was so clearly stated in the 2nd amendment. I should have the right to bear arms, whether its against a mugger on the subway, a tyrannical government, or even faulty police officers.

Am I saying that EVERYONE should go out and buy a gun? No.
That is how you get people like Nathan Gale.

There should be screening, there should be psychological tests. There should be as much background information and testing done as possible.

Perhaps rape and murder incidents would go down if the local gangster thought twice about whether or not the woman he was stalking was packing a Ruger P89 in her purse. Perhaps if guns were more excepted and Respected you wouldn't have as many deaths resulting in accidents. Making it an illegal object that children only ever see in movies and video games as a cool way to blow things up is what contributes, not causes, to many gun related deaths over the course of a year.

Responsible American citizens who own firearms and have the ability to carry them would make this country a safer place.
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[Bimmerboy]

I agree with pretty much all that, except for two things.

There should be NO "screening, and psychological tests" to exercise any right. Zip, zero, nada. By definition, a right forbids such a notion.

Since when should any human, without demonstrable, prior history of criminal violence toward others, be denied the right to life, which necessarily includes the right to defend it?

And... responsible American citizens who own firearms, and have the ability to carry them, already do make this country a safer place. What we need is to expand right-to-carry laws across the nation.
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I'm an excellent driver... Of course I don't have my underwear. I'm definitely not wearing my underwear